Yamaha Disklavier
By Larry Kellogg
Hello, This is an interesting discussion. Thanks to everyone for their comments.
John Wale wrote:
>I am not especially familiar with solenoid pianos, but what I have heard
>has been quite acceptable. Certainly for the 'wine bar background music'
>type of application, a real piano has much more presence than a
>recording, and electronic action in such an application would presumably
>require less operator attention than a roll-playing piano.
I have a funny story about the "wine bar" setting for the solenoid piano. I was all excited about buying my Disklavier so I asked my brother-in-law what he thought of them. He said, "I hate the damned things, every hotel I stay at has one and they never change the disk!" I came to understand his point...playing the same music over and over again grates on the soul.
>To conclude, I think the appreciation of mechanical instruments by
>everyone (not just enthusiasts like us) could be given a great boost by
>the incorporation of new technology, used sensibly. It would be a great
>pity if this were to not happen simply because of scepticism about the
>reliability of electronic components.
I agree wholeheartedly with the last statement. It would be terrible to turn people off from listening (and recording) on solenoid pianos just because of the electronics involved. I listen for the music...
Craig Brougher wrote:
>The three or four people I know who own solenoid players frankly _do_
>have problems with them. One household has a repairman coming from
>Texas, about 600 miles away, to do the work whenever it needs it. I was
>in their home voicing hammers and had hoped to hear it, but although it
>was working, it wasn't pedaling correctly. The units installed in the
>spinets had trouble with their pedal rods, too, and since the music
>needed a pedal, it sounded jerky. I am going strictly on the basis of
>4-for-4 when I think that perhaps a little more thought needed to be put
>into these instruments first.
People are installing these units in spinets??? Yikes! We have a Baldwin Acrosonic that was my wife's childhood piano and I would never think of strapping a solenoid unit to it. As a matter of fact, I sold a Sohmer upright that I owned because I didn't feel it was worthwhile to retrofit that piano. I think Yamaha has the right idea by building quality into the manufacture of the piano. It is a lot easier to get it right when you build it in at the factory versus in the field.
>In my opinion, the finest one seems to be the Yamaha. Although that one
>[in the customers home] too was silent and never played, it was a few
>years ago, and I think they have improved them quite a bit. But we have
>to deal with the others, right?
This is a good point. All of the systems are not equal. I think Yamaha has built the best and most affordable system out there. I can't afford a Boesendorfer SE and I don't have the room. I'm sorry to hear that this customer doesn't listen to their piano. I think that's a waste.
John Tuttle wrote:
>Good Day All, To begin with, in my article I was relating *my*
>experiences and comments from *my* customers in answer to a question
>asking for *my* recommendations. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.
John, I'm not trying to attack you personally. I just think it is unfair to paint all solenoid players as bad. Which systems do your customers have installed? As I have said before, they're not all equal.
>Larry said, "I think Yamaha will be support the piano as long as it
>continues to be a good seller for them." That's one of my strongest
>points against electronic player mechanisms. When it's no longer
>profitable, they (being the manufacturers of any of the electronic piano
>playing mechanisms) quietly close shop.
Well, we're all subject to the same economic laws. When a business cannot cover the costs associated with it, then the business has to be subsidized, or it goes away. I think your point argues for picking a large manufacturer with the research money and talent to stay in the business long-term. To my mind that means Yamaha, and that's why I choose them.
>The dissatisfaction and the data comes from my customers.
I'm sorry that your customers with solenoid players are unhappy. How many of them bought Disklaviers? If they bought from Yamaha they should call Yamaha, if they bought from someone else, they should call someone else. ;-)
>And as for Yamaha's willingness to cooperate in
>making repairs, I've never had a problem getting any electronic unit
>repaired as long as the company was in business. Specific repairs have
>included overheated parts and malfunctioning switch contacts.
I'm glad to hear this. It gives me confidence that I will be able to find support in the future.
>It's very interesting to note that the responses to my article were
>primarily in defense of Yamaha. No one came to the defense of Marantz,
>Wurlitzer, Pianomation or Pianocorder. I think this very clearly
>demonstrates the point of my article which was that nobody can say for
>sure that any electronics company will be in business twenty years from
>now.
If I get twenty years out of my piano, I will be quite happy. The hours of enjoyment that it provides more then makes up for the risk of not being able to fix it in twenty years. Life goes on, I'll buy another one and sell this one as a "used Yamaha acoustic with the Disklavier mechanism burned out"... At least it will still have some usefulness as a "real" piano, unlike all these digital keyboards.
>Further, as the technology improves, the older mechanisms will become
>harder and harder to support. That has been the track record for
>electronic players ever since I've been in the player repair business.
>I don't like having to tell people, "Sorry, it can't be repaired, no one
>has the parts."
The lifetime of electronic parts is quite good. If they don't burn out in the first year they generally last a long, long time. I'll take my chances. The pure joy of recording something and having it play back immediately, or the ability to pull off tons of Midi files from the net to listen to, or buying a professionally produced disk, give me incentive to continue.
>I suppose I could go out and buy up all the old broken electronic units I
>can lay my hands on in the hopes that I'll be capable of fixing any
>problem that I encounter, but in my business electronic players account
>for less than 2% of my customer base so it's economically unreasonable.
I have a lot of faith in the ingenuity of people. If Yamaha abandons the Disklavier there will probably be a few small companies which spring into existence in order to provide service and support for the old models. It could be a business opportunity for somebody.
>Also, it is my impression from dealers I've spoken to over the years that
>the 'player' industry accounts for less than 5% of the piano industry and
>that the piano industry, in general, is in decline.
Is this really true? Someone else said that the Disklavier is one third of Yamaha's piano business. Does anybody know??
>As a side note, I have spoken to a few of the owners of electronic repair
>shops in my local area armed with schematics and questions. They're
>attitude is always the same. "Electronic Player Pianos? We won't touch
>them! Don't want to get involved!"
I can believe that...I would go back to the source for all of my information. I'm sure the local guys haven't seen them and are frightened of them, with good reason.
>Also, my prices have been fairly well explained in previous articles to
>the MMD.
John, I wasn't referring specifically to your prices. I was referring to the market price of old players, and what I would have to spend to get one. I wouldn't get recording, which is a big part of my use of the Disklavier. So, I don't see a choice for my purchase.
Don Teach wrote: (Don - Thanks for your insightful comments)
>The basic philosophy has always been to give service to any product they
>ever made.
This philosophy is a major reason why I choose Yamaha for my purchase. Your stories illustrating their support makes me feel good about choosing Yamaha and recommending Yamaha to my friends.
>Back to Yamaha. If any Disklavier owner has a problem Yamaha does have
>service techs that travel the entire United States. All the dealers that
>sell Disklavier are suppose to have techs in house. Yamaha franchise
>agreements have recently changed. Any Yamaha Dealer that wants to sell
>Disklavier will stock a lot of them.
I'm glad to hear that this is the case. The Disklavier need more exposure, IMHO. It is too often confused for this or that digital piano, something that really bugs me.
>Disklavier accounts to nearly one third of all the Yamaha pianos sold in
>the US. Bill Brandon is the most knowledgeable of the Yamaha employees
>about Disklavier. He installed his personal Disklavier in his own piano.
So how many pianos does Yamaha sell a year in the US? What would be the 1/3 number? I sure hope that percentage is accurate. The more Disklaviers out there, the better.
>Yamaha does not market Kits in the US but does market kits in other
>countries (Japan). They at one time did not want Disklavier showing
>up in pianos of poor quality as this would only degrade the actual
>Disklavier unit itself.
I can agree with this position in many cases. Why should they jeopardize the quality of the Disklavier brand name with inferior installations on bad pianos?
>There are really very few changes in Disklavier since its introduction
>into the US. They prefer to swap circuit boards if a problem is on one
>of them. They then can analyze the problem board and try to make sure
>it does not happen again in someone else's piano. If you have a problem
>with the local dealer, then call Yamaha in America at 1-800-854-1569 or
>fax the service dept. at 714-527-5782.
Swapping circuit boards makes the most sense. Time is money... and the important thing is to isolate defects and correct them back at the factory. Computer manufacturers don't send someone out to find which chip went bad, they just send you a new board and take the old one back for analysis.
I only have good things to say about Yamaha support at this point. I just spoke with Steve Pearson yesterday, and we went through solenoid calibration and pedal adjustment procedures. The Yamaha guys are active on the DUG and go out of their way to answer questions.
>I believe the basic Disklavier models would be MX-100 A (has green
>readout, no knobs), MX-100 B (yellow readout, knob for various functions),
>Unit for console pianos and small studios (separate unit limited
>functions), Unit for first grands has a Wagon for control unit, Unit
>for second series of grands no wagon, and now the units known as XT with
>General Midi and HD disc capability, and last to be introduced (shipped)
>in Oct. 1997, the Pro Model.
You kind of left off the Mark II pianos from this list. They're new models of the MX100A and B series. The word is that there will be some upgrade for Mark II owners in order to convert them to the XT models. No time-frame has been announced...
>The Pro model is really high tech allowing each key to have super
>control. There are hidden features on all the Disklaviers. For example,
>on the MX-100 mark II if you power up holding the disk button you can
>turn on the feature that allows you to play Clavinova disk. This is not
>in any literature that I have seen them print.
Cool stuff about this Professional model. I assume it is mainly for studio, recording work.
>Different size grands have different size solenoids to compensate for
>the weight of the hammers. It is truly a remarkable instrument. Yamaha
>Japan has ten physicists whose job it is every day to improve the piano.
Fascinating! Where did you pick up this fact? It is clear that Yamaha is trying very hard to produce the best product, and for that they get customers like me, who are happy to spend extra $$ for something that is well engineered and reliable.
>Not since Clarence Hickman was with Ampico has a company tried so
>diligently to improve its product. The above are just my opinions based
>on a thirty-year relationship with this company.
Don, I'm glad to know that you feel this way. The Yamaha people assure me that things are going to get bigger and better for the Disklavier. The Professional Disklavier plus the XG integrated piano, help give credence to that argument. They also continue to record top-flight musicians. The more music the better! The Disklavier's support of Midi plus Disklavier format (ESEQ) makes it much more desirable. The silent series pianos with built-in synths are also another excellent addition to the product line.
Regards,
Larry Kellogg |
(Message sent Thu 6 Mar 1997, 19:28:43 GMT, from time zone GMT-0500.) |
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